Interview: Francesca on Addiction, Healing, Movement + Spirituality
WELCOME TO THE FIRST INTERVIEW ON THE INTERVIEWING-INTERESTING-PEOPLE SERIES on THE HEALING ROOT blog
By starting this series, I am hoping to connect with and share the interesting, insightful and engaged perspectives of people who have/do inspire me on the daily. We will be looking at/interviewing: healers, movers, energy dealers, philosophers, survivors, warriors (and everything in between) all in the hopes of being able to share, collaborate, grow & UPLIFT one another in our HEALING journeys; in other words our LIFE JOURNEYS.
I hope that these perspectives & insights help us all to widen our social, cultural, personal, inter-personal, psychological, physical and energetic horizons both internally & externally: in ways that allow for subtle yet profound inner transformation but also in ways that allow for potent, tangible external shifts in ways that are necessary for us in our evolution in this lifetime.
Let’s give a WARM energetic, cyber welcome to one of the most loving, authentic, embodied & powerful beings I have yet come across on my ‘this-life’ journey. Here with us today is Francesca Annenberg; intuitive mover, eater, healer, creator & life-lover. Fran and I first crossed paths when we were both working at the cosmically wondrous restaurant in Cape Town called Sexy Food. This was a powerful energetic hub, where I was able to connect with and cultivate some of the most beautiful sisterhoods & friendships - one of them being with this powerhouse being.
Today, Fran has shared with us some of her most insightful explorations of: Self, healing, recovery, eating disorders, self-care, self-nurturing, what balance & health mean & look like to her, and some VERY practical tips on how to go about this all in your daily life. THANK YOU for sharing your divine wisdom & love with us all, Fran.
AND HERE WE GO … (you might wanna grab some tea or a snack because we go DEEP in this one) …
What does health mean to you?
Health means to be in a state of intuitive flow where I am joyful, energised, motivated and focused. It means that I have a regular period, am responding to hunger cues, getting enough sleep, communicating my needs and taking care of mental health, being in nature, and socialising with friends. It means laughing regularly, feeling inspired to work on projects, and moving my body in fun ways.
2. What does balance mean and look like to you?
For me, to be in a state of health as described above is my idea of living a balanced life.
3. What does deep healing mean to you?
To be in a space of healing means to constantly keep aligning and moving to a more authentic, love-filled and truthful version of myself.
4. What brings you back to your mat (or your practice of showing up for yourself in whatever way that looks like to you on a given day) everyday?
Once one hops on the train of self-inquiry, it’s impossible to jump off. I’m always showing up for myself as best I can each day because I feel inauthentic and hypercritical if I don’t. I cannot live a life of lies and so I try to be as real with myself as possible. This in turn creates an inner vortex that attracts the most amazing people into my life because I am living from a place of authenticity.
5. How do you practice taking your insights, realisations and lessons learnt on your mat (or in your practice of showing up for yourself) into your daily life?
Sometimes it’s difficult to really live the insights I have learnt… it’s easier to do things the way I know how, even if it’s unhealthy or maladaptive! However, I like to journal, share messages on social media (got to practice what I preach), dance, and use therapy as ways to help solidify these insights in my body. Slowly but surely, it becomes easier to recognise when I am acting out of alignment and I become quicker at catching myself when going down a path that isn’t helpful.
6. What does intimacy with yourself and others mean and look like to you?
To be intimate means to be present.
7. What are some of your favorite self-care rituals/techniques/practices?
A few self-care practices include journaling, meditating, dancing, being in nature, connecting with friends, eating intuitively, talking to myself in a loving voice and tone, listening to music, and laughing. I like to go on silent retreats when I can too.
8. What practices or routines have changed your life?
I am grateful for yoga, movement practices, dance therapy, art therapy, women’s sexuality work, and women’s groups. I like to wake up early-ish to enjoy a yoga/movement/dance practice to start my day with the earth rising to the sun. Journaling every morning has also been extremely helpful as it gives me a few moments to reflect and get any thoughts down and out of the way.
9. What are some of the biggest life lessons you have learnt (in a nutshell – you can bullet point them if you’d like to)?
Time is an illusion.
We are all connected.
My body is a vessel for my eternal soul.
I was never, and have never been born.
Love is the only way.
Trust the universe; I am always supported.
As Rumi said, “I am the universe in ecstatic motion.”
10. What are 3 things you wish you knew earlier on in life?
How my body looks doesn’t determine my worth.
When I starve my body, I starve my soul.
I am my most beautiful when I am authentically me.
11. What sets your heart on fire - what inspires you immensely in life?
I am continuously inspired to help make this world better, more peaceful and happier for humans, animals, and the earth.
12. What keeps you sharing what you share on social media?
I love sharing on social media for the connections that I make with others around the world. I am grateful to have a platform to help and inspire others and I love hearing feedback from the people who follow me. It’s humbling, energizing and encouraging.
13. What are 3 things that make you feel hopeful and/or excited in life?
I am excited and hopeful that more people are going vegan/eating more plant-based food; I am excited by all the beautiful events/workshops/collaborations that people are sharing that helps elevate human consciousness; I am hopeful when I see the strength and resilience of nature despite how destructive humans treat her.
14. What are the 3-5 things that you do to help yourself when you feel down?
I talk to friends, go out in nature, move my body, journal, and listen to sound meditations. These are just a handful of what I do to help move stagnate energy. I also try to remember that this phase is temporary, that it will pass and that it is here to teach me something.
15. What are 3-5 things that you do to help yourself when you feel anxious/under pressure or stressed?
When I’m stressed I use a combination of some form of body movement, meditation, setting up a plan of action that has tangible tasks to help me stay focused, reaching out for support, and being in nature. I also try to remember that this phase is temporary, will pass and that it is here to teach me something.
16. What does self-care mean to you? And what are your ideas and philosophies around this concept? Who has influenced these ideas in how you relate to this idea and yourself the most?
Self-care means being out in nature often, connecting with my close and trusted friends, being involved in creative projects (it can be as simple as trying a new recipe, writing a short poem or painting), actively taking care of my mental health by going to therapy/coaching, as well moving my body in ways that bring my joy.
Sexual Awakening Work by Shakti Malan, free form movement, psychotherapy, life coaching, intuitive eating, HAES, kundalini yoga and veganism have all impacted my life and how I take care of myself.
17. Who are 5 people (in your life or on the gram/social media) that have influenced your healing journey in a big way?
People who have influenced me include, Christy Harrison (intuitive eating coach), Juliet Allen (sexual awakening work), Shannon Pam (my life coach), David Gardner (my movement teacher) and honest friends who have stuck me through it all.
18. Three things that you really try to prioritize in your life?
Getting enough sleep
Some form of self-reflection (like journaling or meditation) and
Connecting with people.
19. What are the first things you do when you feel out of balance?
I usually move my body to move stagnate energy,
Get creative in the kitchen and
Get back in nature.
20. What are the first things you do when you start to feel sick?
Slow down, rest, sleep, drink water and tea for extra hydration and listen to what my body is asking for. I do believe that sickness is a sign from the body to slow down and/or reassess my emotional state and priorities.
21. What do you do when you really don’t feel like meeting yourself with compassion but you know it is what you need to do in that moment to recalibrate and re-center?
Sometimes I do nothing and trust that this phase will pass. Sometimes it means connecting with friends who serve helpful reminders to get me back to center. Sometimes a good cry is needed. Sometimes it’s a hug. Sometimes it’s sleep. Sometimes I numb out, but I also know that I won’t be in this situation forever. As long as I don’t stay there, it’s ok to feel down and wobbly at times. We’re human after all.
22. What do you do to ground yourself?
Taking a time out is how I ground myself. It usually means being alone for some time and then reaching out to a close friend for a heart-to-heart. Being in nature is always soothing. Getting creative (painting, cooking, and writing) help loads too as well as listening to a gentle sound meditation.
23. What do you do to help you tune into your intuition?
Being in tune with my intuition means that all of my senses are attuned and activated. I am on the lookout for synchronistic signs from the universe. I trust my intuition when I am guided, even when it doesn’t always make sense. It also means that I listen to my body when I need to eat or sleep. I cannot be intuitive when I am denying other aspects of myself from myself.
24. What do you do to slow down when things feel fast paced and crazy?
I struggle to slow down as I get lots of energy and satisfaction from doing, creating and producing – I am a Generator after all, and come from a family of very diligent and hard workers! To help me slow down, I refrain from organizing things too far in advance and rather allow things to pan out as they should at the pace they need to flow. Without having a plan or a goal, I allow things in my life to slow down. Going on facilitated or self-retreats also help.
25. What are your two biggest vices? And how do you go about dealing with your reliance on them?
Nail biting and filling up my days with too many things.
With the nail biting, I have really felt in my body that I want to stop. I was once on mushrooms and it was a moment of clarity that I just wanted to stop hurting my body. For the most part, I no longer bite.
I fill up my day with lots of things to distract myself from fully being in my body. I also unhealthily equate being busy with being a better person (ie. I’m more productive, successful, useful, valuable, well-liked etc when I’m busy). I am slowly learning that this is not the case and by spreading myself too thin, I can’t actually be the best version of myself.
26. What are your top tips as to how best to support your yourself in staying committed to life and your recovery from addiction?
Be in nature often, connect with trusted friends, go to therapy/groups/coaching/find a mentor or sponsor, eat foods you truly love, unfollow triggering social media accounts/let go of triggering people in your life, and practice gratitudes (this doesn’t have to be a formal practice but rather simple acknowledgments throughout the day of the beauty of the world around you).
27. For someone wanting to start a spiritual practice, what advice or insight could you offer? What are some good initial steps to go inward on the journey of Self?
See my answer to Q55.
28.. For someone wanting to start out a regular, consistent movement practice but they are shy, lack confidence to begin with group sessions or lack motivation – what advice would you give them?
Start dancing at home! Get weird with yourself.
29. How do you navigate the terrain of listening to your body to give it space and time for healing, resting, repairing and recovering AND having the discipline to do what you know will make you feel good and support you in other ways? Essentially how do you reconcile the notion of “listening to your body” and having discipline/consistency/routine in a certain practice? (For example, sometimes you really don’t feel like doing yoga but in that moment should you listen to that or push through because you know that beyond the resistance there might be some golden nuggets)?
It doesn’t have to be so black and white. You don’t have to do a typical physical yoga practice. It can be gentle stretches, chanting or a meditation instead. Remain flexible and adapt. The body knows best, and when we truly listen, the repair and recover process happens even quicker.
30. For someone out there that is just beginning their recovery journey from addiction (in a broader way understanding of addiction) what would your advice be?
You’re doing great. Remember why you started. Keep moving to the light that is You.
31. For someone out there who is just beginning their journey of recovery from an eating disorder, how might this (above) advice shift, and what would you add? What other tips could you give them?
You may possibly want to see a dietitian to help with meal plans and who can objectively look at the food you’re eating and recommend things accordingly. A therapist or joining a support group can be helpful too.
32. What do you believe the journey of addiction and healing therefrom can teach us? (in a broader way as I know there are very specific, idiosyncratic lessons that are learnt in relation to people’s individual journeying that is very context specific to that individual).
It’s all about moving closer to our essence. Addiction is a process of moving away from our essence. The path of recovery is the journey back.
33. What were a few of the hardest parts of your recovery journey and with the wisdom of experience, what advice/insight/knowledge would you offer your younger self?
I can’t say there was a particular hard part. It all feels hard in the moment until you look back at far you’ve come and see how each experience was needed for growth. The advice I would give my younger self would be: Don’t be afraid of yourself. Expand.
34. What do you think, based on your experience, are the biggest benefits of going to therapy? Which therapeutic processes have you tried and which ones did you resonate the most with? When would you recommend someone should consider going to therapy?
Psychotherapy has been part of my life since 2008. I’ve had regular therapy sessions ever since then which have been helpful. Just having someone help you see a situation in a clearer light has been the most powerful aspect of it all. I’ve done psychotherapy, life coaching, plant ceremonies and microdosing, acupuncture, family constellation therapy, dance therapy, art therapy, ED group therapy, past life regression therapy, astrology, and family therapy. They have all played their unique roles. I would always suggest therapy, whatever it looks like for you. Remember through therapy is only as useful as the amount of work you wish to put into it.
35. What advice would you give to someone who is trying to establish total food freedom and move away from restrictive mind states but is still trying to live as ethically as possible through adopting a plant based diet?
Ethics and food freedom are not mutually exclusive. One can still be plant-based but feel free in their food choices.
36. How can someone negotiate their restrictive patterns and still have very specific parameters of what they include within their diets?
This sounds like an eating disorder to me, unless there is genuine health issue like celiac disease.
37. Top tips for people trying to regain their period?
You can read my blog post, How to Regain Your Period: 25 Tips. It’s an old post but there are some good nuggets in there. You can also read my article, 10 Tips to Establish a Healthier Relationship Towards Your Period. You can also buy my ebook, Eat With The Moon, that addresses how to balance one’s hormones naturally.
38. Top tips for people who have particular food fears and phobias (for example, fear or eating overt fats)? Advice on navigating the space between eating foods that are safe and make you feel comfortable with eating but also challenging yourself by getting out of your comfort zone? If you could maybe touch on the roles of each different place within the recovery journey?
A dietitian or support group can be helpful in this instance; they can offer suggestions and guidance. I went on many “challenge outings” when I was in an ED inpatient clinic where we would go as a group and eat a “scary meal” together. The support from the group and facilitator was much needed. These outings showed me that these meals weren’t such big deals after all. Eating out and giving the control to others to prepare your meal are important to allow too. Including a “scary” food item into one of your meals each day is also a good practice to do.
39. For people trying to heal their relationship to food and establish food freedom but who have also some sort of illness like an autoimmune disease, how would you negotiate the balance between finding foods that aid in the process of the mental recovery from ED and reducing foods that trigger the illness? Acknowledging the link between body and mind – would you suggest that trying an all-in approach of letting go of any mental restrictions to see if this helps in the illness recovery too or would you suggest a more conservative approach of things like elimination diets and such?
I don’t have experience on autoimmune diseases so cannot comment on that however, I think many functional digestive issues, like IBS for example, are the result of disordered eating. Please listen to this podcast by Christy Harrison: The Truth About Digestion and Gut Health with Marci Evans. This answers the above question really nicely.
40. Where do you think that “clean eating” fits within the journey of recovery from an eating disorder?
It doesn’t fit into the picture at all. Clean eating implies that some foods are good and others are bad. In order to free ourselves from our EDs, we have to remove all shame and guilt around food. This means disassociating labels and preconceived around food and food groups. Once we can approach food from a space of neutrality and enjoy the food we love without fear and judgement, we are free.
41. What does bio-individuality mean to you? How do you navigate the terrain of “everyone has different needs” and what works for one person might not work for another in terms of healing processes/practices/needs?
I always indicate that the information I share is from personal experience. I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I simply hope to inspire people to find their own path and healing processes based on the fact that I am doing the same.
42. For someone dealing with exercise addiction – what would your tops tips be on trying to heal and move away from that constricted way of engaging with physical movement?
I have found that if I am doing exercise that I don’t like but I am doing it anyway, it means that I am doing it to control my body. Rather, I find exercise and movement practices that I truly enjoy, that make me feel whole, creative and connected. Do things you love. Don’t do things you hate. Critically question why you still engage in exercise that you dread. Rest when your body is asking for it.
43. From a more philosophical standpoint, what do you think the reason for the emergence of eating disorders (or other addictions) arises from?
Going to keep this one short: Social media and the prevalence of patriarchal diet culture have definitely increased the prevalence of EDs.
44. What advice could you give to someone who is trying to discern how much of their: love for food or their interest in health/nutrition/exercise etc. is fueled by ED?
Identify the feeling and the body’s reaction behind the action. Is there any anxiety, fear, apprehension, tension, tightness, slyness, shame, guilt, dizziness, obsession, repeated thoughts, judgement, avoiding, forcing? If these feelings are present, the action may be coming from an ED place. In comparison, when one is grounded, content, able to move on after a meal, rest without guilt, and has genuine excitement, this may be coming from an authentic place.
45. Who are some spiritual teachers who have really impacted your healing journey?
Sue Cooper, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield, Adyashanti, Eckhart Tolle, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and so many more!
46. What are your three favorite meals that make you feel BOMB?
I don’t feel comfortable sharing specific foods in case it triggers someone.
47. What would you be your top tips for people trying to find stillness, for people struggling with over-controlling tendencies/ perfectionism and/or immense inner rigidity?
Sometimes all you need is a helping hand to show you how to be. Going on a facilitated retreat or finding a life coach/therapist/mentor can be helpful in “giving you permission” to let go and providing you with tools on how to slow down. Psilocybin mushrooms have also extremely beneficial in helping me see and be myself just as I am.
48. Top tips for people struggling to dis-identify with and slow down/quieten their minds?
See above. Also get out in nature, journal, meditate, play - whatever that means for you (eg. art, dance, collaging, pottery , traveling to a new place and hanging with friends).
49. Top tips for people trying to LET go of negative habits and stay committed enough to new ones to maintain them? (anything from nail biting to oversleeping to procrastinating to negative self-talk etc.)
You may not like this answer but you actually just have to fully realize that this habit no longer serves you and you’re willing to let it go. But the realisation has to be so authentically felt throughout the body in order for the change the happen. Sometimes it means reaching rock bottom, becoming extremely fed up or having an epiphany.
50. How do you navigate the space between recognising that you are whole and do not need “fixing” or “improving” but still strive to better yourself in certain aspects of life?
It all comes down to self-love.
51. How important do you believe the role of connection and Sangha (spiritual community) is within the recovery process?
The spiritual connection needs to be within oneself, however a spiritual connection with a community can help foster and fast-track the recovery process. Finding a sisterhood and likeminded people have helped me grow tremendously over the years through inspiring, though-provoking and honest discussions, shares and celebrations.
52. How would you recommend that people go about the process of self-inquiry? Many people are keen to begin a deeper conversation with themselves but actually don’t know how to.
When the student is ready the teacher will come. The teacher can take form of a book, podcast or mentor. Remember the path you are already walking on, keep your eyes open for signs and trust your intuition.
53. How would you recommend people start the process of coming into womanhood, accepting and embracing femininity?
Joining a women’s circle or sisterhood is the best place to start. Look out for gatherings that happen around full moon, at yoga studios or retreat centers. I have done a number of Sexual Awakening for Women’s courses where I have learnt about the sacred fem and masc work (and so much more!). Through these groups, I have met amazing new friends who share these interests. By joining them, I have also gained confidence in hosting my own too.
54. Top tips on MANIFESTING your dreams/goals?
I got this idea from Danielle Le Porte (author of The Desire Map): Simply visualize and feel the feeling you want to manifest. Rather than getting stuck on the technicalities, material objects or logistics of it all, rather identify the feelings you want to embody. Remember and recall those feelings regularly and then allow the universe to give you what you need that is in alignment with those feelings. Sometimes what we think we need is actually what we don’t need.
55. What truly makes you feel most enlivened and authentically present in the world?
Nature, music and connection.
56. What continually teaches you to soften?
Nature: The greatest teacher of them all. People: We are all mirrors of one another, reflecting back what it is that we need to work on.
57. Top 5 book recommendations? And any other helpful resources you would like to share (podcasts/YouTubers/documentaries/movies etc.)?
Christy Harrisons’s podcast, Food Psych; Women who Run with the Wolves: Myths and Stories of the Wild Woman Archetype by Clarissa Pinkola Estés; Tara Brach’s podcast, Brene Brown and Planet Earth documentary series.
58. And if you would like to share (no pressure); what was one experience in your life that really changed the way you perceive and engage with yourself, others and life itself?
I can’t choose just one! I would say that traveling alone for 6.5 months in 2015, all my plant medicine ceremonies, and moving to a new city were all significant experiences.
59. Was there any one experience that made you go, “OK I need to prioritize my recovery and NOW”?
When I was traveling alone, I was working on a yoga retreat in the middle of nowhere in Spain. One morning I decided to throw away all of my contraceptive pills. It was an important moment because I recognized that I was now accepting I needed to put on weight (in order to have a proper, regular period) and connect with my feminine and body as a whole (by eliminating the fake hormones from my body) which was what I feared to embody when in my ED.
60. Why do you think travelling is important and what has it offered you?
Traveling gets me out of my comfort zone and shows me how resilient I am. It shows me how diverse and how similar we all are. It brings perspective, and demonstrate the magnitude, connection and synchronicity of all life. It reminds me of the magic of the universe. It brings me back to life.
SHORT ANSWER QUESTIONS:
· Sweet or savory food?
Sweet
· Bananas or mango?
Both!
· Avocado or sweet potato?
Sweet potato
· Pasta or rice?
Rice
· Beach or mountains?
Mountains
· Summer or Winter?
Summer (but I love a good mist!)
· Smoothie bowl or oatmeal bowl?
Both!
· 3 favorite songs of all time?
OMG, just three?! Can I give you 5? An Ocean In Between The Waves – The War On Drugs, Says – Nils Frahm, Pale Skin – Christian Loffler, En El Cielo (Isabel Ruiz Cover) – Bado Edit, Nessi Gomes + Bado, Sirens – Monolink
· What is one kind thing you have done for another person and what prompted you to do it?
Smile. Because why not? It takes no effort and can change someone’s entire world.
· One kind act that someone did for you and how did it make you feel?
A genuine hug. I felt like I was melting.
· What is your idea of an ideal weekend getaway?
Deeeeep in the mountains, comfort cooking, hikes, laughing, a bit of micro-dosing, music, and dancing
· Gardening or arts and crafts?
Arts and crafts
· What is your doshic constitution?
Vatta/Pitta
· Current favorite dessert? Current favorite savory dish?
I am currently loving my raw brownie cake and a spice-filled coconut curry.
· One meal that represents your childhood?
Anything with cucumber, massive fruit salads and peanut butter
We covered so many important topics in this interview with Francesca and I am beyond grateful for the time, dedication, energy & LOVE she has poured into sharing with us her intimate ways of engaging with life, recovery, healing, food & Self.
If any of you have any other questions for me or for Fran, please don’t hesitate to contact me via email at mariapraeg@hotmail.com , sending you all so much love
Yours in Healing
Maria
